# video recording **URL:** \ **Category:** Uncategorized\ **Created:** [August 10, 2017, 2:35pm UTC](https://psychtoolbox.discourse.group/t/video-recording/86 "2017-08-10T14:35:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![tudorcb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/91b2a8/32.png) [@tudorcb](https://psychtoolbox.discourse.group/u/tudorcb)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2017, 2:35pm UTC](https://psychtoolbox.discourse.group/t/video-recording/86/1 "2017-08-10T14:35:47Z")
Hi, we are trying to design an experiment in which we simultaneously present a stimulus on a screen and record the reaction of the test subject in a videofile. Initially we used PTB3 for stimulus presentation and ImageJ for videocapture, but we had concerns about the timing of the recording relative to stimulus. We therefore would like to run both stimulus presentation and videorecording from within PTB3, benefit from the higher timing accuracy. Stimulus presentation has not been an issue, and we also succesfully controlled the isight camera with the videorecording demo. However we have issues with opening the videofile. We tried the anec\_mpeg4 and one other suggested codec, but there clearly is an issue with the correct encoding. We attempted to open the video with quicktime and with ImageJ, at no avail. We are trying to get this to work on an iMac 2011 using Mac OS X 10.11.6 El Capitan. Suggestions? Thanks, Tudor ---
**Author:** ![mariokleiner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/13edae/32.png) [@mariokleiner](https://psychtoolbox.discourse.group/u/mariokleiner)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 5:50pm UTC](https://psychtoolbox.discourse.group/t/video-recording/86/2 "2017-08-12T17:50:06Z")
XX---In PSYCHTOOLBOX@yahoogroups.com, \ wrote : Hi, we are trying to design an experiment in which we simultaneously present a stimulus on a screen and record the reaction of the test subject in a videofile. Initially we used PTB3 for stimulus presentation and ImageJ for videocapture, but we had concerns about the timing of the recording relative to stimulus. We therefore would like to run both stimulus presentation and videorecording from within PTB3, benefit from the higher timing accuracy. Stimulus presentation has not been an issue, and we also succesfully controlled the isight camera with the videorecording demo. However we have issues with opening the videofile. We tried the anec\_mpeg4 and one other suggested codec, but there clearly is an issue with the correct encoding. We attempted to open the video with quicktime and with ImageJ, at no avail. We are trying to get this to work on an iMac 2011 using Mac OS X 10.11.6 El Capitan. Suggestions? -\> My suggestion would be to use Linux for the most reliable video capture/recording and the most accurate timestamping of recorded video if that is an issue. I wouldn't guarantee anything about timing precision on OSX. After Apple breaking video capture in multiple osx releases and me repairing it a couple of times or working around new bugs i've given up trying to make it reliable. Also the iSight is one of the least controllable cameras in terms of framerate and precision. That's unfortunately due to its firmware, so will also affect precision and control under Linux to some smaller degree if you use an iSight. For really precise timing you'd need to use a Firewire camera or USB-3 machine vision camera and PTB's libdc1394 capture engine, e.g., as shown in VideoMultiCameraCaptureDemo.m. That allows really pro level control over imaging parameters, timing, etc. and also synchronized multi-camera capture if one needs it. Fully supported on Linux, used to work ok at least with Firewire cameras on OSX, not available on Windows. The encoding at least of the standard h264 codec should be fine and standards compliant. You will notice that PTB itself can play the movies just fine. A up to date version of, e.g., VLC, and similar free playback software will also not have problems. It's mostly Apples primitive Quicktime player that can't play back anything but the most basic consumer level formats. Maybe ImageJ also uses Apples Quicktime framework and so suffers the same limitations? One solution if you absolutely wanted to use Quicktime would be to transcode the videos after recording into something primitive that Quicktime can understand. E.g., use VLC for tanscoding, or use PTB's playback code to fetch frames from a movie frame by frame, then PTBs movie writing code with the setup in ImagingStereoDemo to write it out into a new movie file of more primitive format. -mario Thanks, Tudor   ---
**Author:** ![tudorcb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/91b2a8/32.png) [@tudorcb](https://psychtoolbox.discourse.group/u/tudorcb)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 7:23pm UTC](https://psychtoolbox.discourse.group/t/video-recording/86/3 "2017-08-12T19:23:38Z")
Hi Mario, To be honest I'm inches away from plunging into Linux. We are anyhow using Debian unix machines built by a postdoctoral fellow for other purposes. What FireWire cameras would you recommend? Thanks,  Tudor  Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 12, 2017, at 13:50, [mario.kleiner@...](mailto:mario.kleiner@...) [PSYCHTOOLBOX] \<[PSYCHTOOLBOX@yahoogroups.com](mailto:PSYCHTOOLBOX@yahoogroups.com)\> wrote: >   > > XX---In [PSYCHTOOLBOX@yahoogroups.com](mailto:PSYCHTOOLBOX@yahoogroups.com), \ wrote : > > > > Hi, > > we are trying to design an experiment in which we simultaneously present a stimulus on a screen and record the reaction of the test subject in a videofile. > Initially we used PTB3 for stimulus presentation and ImageJ for videocapture, but we had concerns about the timing of the recording relative to stimulus. > > We therefore would like to run both stimulus presentation and videorecording from within PTB3, benefit from the higher timing accuracy. > > Stimulus presentation has not been an issue, and we also succesfully controlled the isight camera with the videorecording demo. However we have issues with opening the videofile. We tried the anec\_mpeg4 and one other suggested codec, but there clearly is an issue with the correct encoding. > > We attempted to open the video with quicktime and with ImageJ, at no avail. > > We are trying to get this to work on an iMac 2011 using Mac OS X 10.11.6 El Capitan. > > Suggestions? > > -\> My suggestion would be to use Linux for the most reliable video capture/recording and the most accurate timestamping of recorded video if that is an issue. I wouldn't guarantee anything about timing precision on OSX. After Apple breaking video capture in multiple osx releases and me repairing it a couple of times or working around new bugs i've given up trying to make it reliable. Also the iSight is one of the least controllable cameras in terms of framerate and precision. That's unfortunately due to its firmware, so will also affect precision and control under Linux to some smaller degree if you use an iSight. > > For really precise timing you'd need to use a Firewire camera or USB-3 machine vision camera and PTB's libdc1394 capture engine, e.g., as shown in VideoMultiCameraCaptureDemo.m. That allows really pro level control over imaging parameters, timing, etc. and also synchronized multi-camera capture if one needs it. Fully supported on Linux, used to work ok at least with Firewire cameras on OSX, not available on Windows. > > The encoding at least of the standard h264 codec should be fine and standards compliant. You will notice that PTB itself can play the movies just fine. A up to date version of, e.g., VLC, and similar free playback software will also not have problems. It's mostly Apples primitive Quicktime player that can't play back anything but the most basic consumer level formats. Maybe ImageJ also uses Apples Quicktime framework and so suffers the same limitations? > > One solution if you absolutely wanted to use Quicktime would be to transcode the videos after recording into something primitive that Quicktime can understand. E.g., use VLC for tanscoding, or use PTB's playback code to fetch frames from a movie frame by frame, then PTBs movie writing code with the setup in ImagingStereoDemo to write it out into a new movie file of more primitive format. > > -mario > > > Thanks, > > Tudor > >   ---
**Author:** ![tudorcb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/91b2a8/32.png) [@tudorcb](https://psychtoolbox.discourse.group/u/tudorcb)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 11:46pm UTC](https://psychtoolbox.discourse.group/t/video-recording/86/4 "2017-08-12T23:46:04Z")
Disregard this latest question, I found the relevant documentation. More info then I'll ever need. -------------------------------------------- > On Sat, 8/12/17, [tudorcb@...](mailto:tudorcb@...) [PSYCHTOOLBOX] \<[PSYCHTOOLBOX@yahoogroups.com](mailto:PSYCHTOOLBOX@yahoogroups.com)\> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSYCHTOOLBOX] Re: video recording > To: [PSYCHTOOLBOX@yahoogroups.com](mailto:PSYCHTOOLBOX@yahoogroups.com) > Date: Saturday, August 12, 2017, 3:23 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Mario, > To be honest I'm > inches away from plunging into Linux. We are anyhow using > Debian unix machines built by a postdoctoral fellow for > other purposes.What FireWire cameras > would you recommend? > Thanks, > Tudor > > Sent from my > iPhone > On Aug 12, > 2017, at 13:50, [mario.kleiner@...](mailto:mario.kleiner@...) > [PSYCHTOOLBOX] \<[PSYCHTOOLBOX@yahoogroups.com](mailto:PSYCHTOOLBOX@yahoogroups.com)\> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > XX---In [PSYCHTOOLBOX@yahoogroups.com](mailto:PSYCHTOOLBOX@yahoogroups.com), > \ wrote : > > Hi, > > we are trying to design an > experiment in which we simultaneously present a stimulus on > a screen and record the reaction of the test subject in a > videofile. > Initially we used PTB3 for > stimulus presentation and ImageJ for videocapture, but we > had concerns about the timing of the recording relative to > stimulus. > > We therefore > would like to run both stimulus presentation and > videorecording from within PTB3, benefit from the higher > timing accuracy. > > Stimulus > presentation has not been an issue, and we also succesfully > controlled the isight camera with the videorecording demo. > However we have issues with opening the videofile. We tried > the anec\_mpeg4 and one other suggested codec, but there > clearly is an issue with the correct encoding. > > We attempted to open the video > with quicktime and with ImageJ, at no avail. > > We are trying to get this to > work on an iMac 2011 using Mac OS X 10.11.6 El Capitan. > > Suggestions? > > -\> My suggestion would be > to use Linux for the most reliable video capture/recording > and the most accurate timestamping of recorded video if that > is an issue. I wouldn't guarantee anything about timing > precision on OSX. After Apple breaking video capture in > multiple osx releases and me repairing it a couple of times > or working around new bugs i've given up trying to make > it reliable. Also the iSight is one of the least > controllable cameras in terms of framerate and precision. > That's unfortunately due to its firmware, so will also > affect precision and control under Linux to some smaller > degree if you use an iSight. > > For really precise timing you'd need to use > a Firewire camera or USB-3 machine vision camera and > PTB's libdc1394 capture engine, e.g., as shown in > VideoMultiCameraCaptureDemo.m. That allows really pro level > control over imaging parameters, timing, etc. and also > synchronized multi-camera capture if one needs it. Fully > supported on Linux, used to work ok at least with Firewire > cameras on OSX, not available on Windows. > > The encoding at least of the > standard h264 codec should be fine and standards compliant. > You will notice that PTB itself can play the movies just > fine. A up to date version of, e.g., VLC, and similar free > playback software will also not have problems. It's > mostly Apples primitive Quicktime player that can't play > back anything but the most basic consumer level formats. > Maybe ImageJ also uses Apples Quicktime framework and so > suffers the same limitations? > > One solution if you absolutely wanted to use > Quicktime would be to transcode the videos after recording > into something primitive that Quicktime can understand. > E.g., use VLC for tanscoding, or use PTB's playback code > to fetch frames from a movie frame by frame, then PTBs movie > writing code with the setup in ImagingStereoDemo to write it > out into a new movie file of more primitive format. > > -mario > > > Thanks, > > Tudor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > #yiv8225063189 #yiv8225063189 -- > #yiv8225063189ygrp-mkp { > border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px > 0;padding:0 10px;} > > #yiv8225063189 #yiv8225063189ygrp-mkp hr { > border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} > > #yiv8225063189 #yiv8225063189ygrp-mkp #yiv8225063189hd { > 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**Author:** ![mariokleiner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/13edae/32.png) [@mariokleiner](https://psychtoolbox.discourse.group/u/mariokleiner)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 8:08pm UTC](https://psychtoolbox.discourse.group/t/video-recording/86/5 "2017-08-17T20:08:33Z")
XXX-In PSYCHTOOLBOX@yahoogroups.com, \ wrote : Hi Mario, so here's the low tech solution. We just dropped a mirror into the arena, reflecting the screen into the camera, unbeknownst to our rodent subject. Hence we are simultaneously recording the stimulus and the animal response. (Done with a Webcam plugin of imageJ controlling a Logitech Webcam pro 920). Synchronization was "masterfully" approximated by having the PTBv3 stimulus program listening to the keypresses that start and stop the ImageJ recording. The framerate, retrocalculated from the number of frames and elapsed time is a glorious 12 fps, but even so, the stimulus does start and stops on the recording at the predicted frames. -\> Cool, i love low tech solutions. Straight physics, easy to understand and fix, no horror induced by software upgrades :) Will have to do until we get a firewire camera ( no, I do not have an external isight). Will have to read into -\> Ok, but you were talking about an iSight before? infrared capability, focal distance and depth and angle of view before shelling out the 1000 US$ or so they appear to cost, and transforming a laptop into a Unix machine. You guys like Neurodebian, is that right ? -\> Neurodebian is the most simple way to get things set up for typical use. 1. Install Matlab if you think you really need it, instead of Octave. 2. Install PTB from NeuroDebian. 3. One run of PsychLinuxConfiguration after that, a reboot, and you are set. -\> Here's a list of all cameras known to work with libdc1394 and therefore PTB's dc1394 capture engine, including some useful tips on camera selection: [https://damien.douxchamps.net/ieee1394/cameras/](https://damien.douxchamps.net/ieee1394/cameras/) You would want a camera that is 1394A or 1394B capable (aka Firewire), and IIDC standard compliant. While at least the Linux engine also supports some USB-3 cameras with USBVision standard, that support was less precise (in timing) and more fragile/troublesome/unreliable to get working, needing for quite a bit of tweaking, at least with the one model i tested a few years ago. Things may have changed since then, my memory about details is dim. Are you any happier with Mac OS X 10.12? -\> I'm equally unhappy with any existing OSX version and don't give any guarantees wrt. anything if you use OSX. In general it has become worse with any new osx version. But if you use a AMD graphics card and the Psychtoolboxkerneldriver and PTB doesn't complain about anything, then visual stimulation might be ok. And if not, and your needs for visual stimulus timing precision and integrity are low enough, maybe you are fine, i don't know your specific needs. Wrt. to the firewire capture just try it and see if it works for your purpose or doesn't. It's easy enough to test. -mario Tudor ---In [PSYCHTOOLBOX@yahoogroups.com](mailto:PSYCHTOOLBOX@yahoogroups.com), \ wrote : Hi Mario, yes we are talking about recording a real live mouse that runs around in an arena and reacts to Psychtoolbox presented visual stimuli. We tried to record him with ImageJ, and that gave about 16 - 20 fps, but more importantly, we did not have a way to precisely ascertain when the stimulus was presented relative to the recording (mouse has to be recorded continuously before, during and after the stimulus presentation). My thought was that I can design a PTB experiment that will manage the stimulus as well as the recording and thus synchronize the animal reaction to the stimulation. Do you think it can be done with one machine running both the stimulus presentation on a secondary screen and the video recording on the main screen? From within the same m file or separately? I already -\> Yes, one machine will be enough. You don't need to display the video feed, just to record it, but if you want to, you can. With a firewire camera (again, do you already have a firewire based external iSight to test this out?) you can follow the approach of VideoMultiCameraCaptureDemo, although that does way more than what you'd need for recording from only one camera, and will need removal of lots of code and probably a bit customization. However the demo is quite close to what you'd need. E.g, the 'pts' timestamps would represent capture time quite close to reality (minus a camera model specific offset between the recorded pts of a frame and the start of exposure), and the returned 'GetFetchedFramecount' would correspond to the framecount in the recoded movie file. Iow. you can compare pts to the presentation timestamp of Screen('Flip') or log it together with the framecount to find out which movie frame corresponds to which event in your trial. E.g., if you edit line 83 to this codec = ':CodecType=DEFAULTencoder UseVFR Videoquality=0.5 Profile=2'; then it would record video in a format that even Apples toy movie player can handle. The DC1394 engine can do that, whereas the standard GStreamer engine currently can't. know you think I should do it under Unix but would you gve Mac OS x 10.11.6 or 10.12 a chance? In theory the firewire capture engine also works on OSX, in practice i haven't tried it in years, so ymmv on current osx versions, depending on if and how much Apple screwed up their trainwreck in that area. With regard to the firewire cameras, these are recording an animal, maybe under infrared, wide angle and reasonable focal distance so they can capture the entire arena. -\> The engine was tested with a few models of Basler cameras, one PointGrey FireFly, and a cheap but charming UniBrain Fire-i. Firewire cameras are at least in my experience very plug & play, one of the few things that actuallly worked as advertised by their vendors. -mario Thanks, Tudor Previous convo: We played around a little bit with the various videorecording demos and are indeed able to translate the saved files encoded with the anec\_mpeg4 codec using VLC. However, it looked like grabbing the isight camera has some sort of delay, which was about 5 seconds on a Mac pro and 2 seconds on an iMac. When you run the VideorecordingDemo, the time elapsed and timestamp differential is indicated in the active window. However, if you recover time elapsed and various t = Getsec timestamps, the elapsed time is consistently shorter. When you open the video in VLC, the initial 5 seconds are unavailable (you simply cannot move the cursor over to them). The maximum frame rate we achieved was about 30 fps, as expected, but this initial "glitch" is troublesome. Tried to record the movie without showing it on screen. Again, when one analyses the converted movie, the extra five seconds are there. Again Mac OS X 10.11.6 "El Capitan". Considering getting one of the firewire cameras. Would be nice to hear what people have used succesfully. This woudl be for tracking a (really fast) mouse around an arena, so forgiving focal depth and wide angle are necessary. -\> Ok, but then you are not talking about the cheap USB based iSight found in typical Apple toys, as i assumed, or how would you use that for tracking a mouse -- an actual living mouse as your subject, not a computer mouse? If you talk about one of those old classic external iSight's, afaik those are firewire cameras, no? So you could give that iSight a try, but with the DC1394 high perf capture and recording engine. Setup instructions in "help VideoCaptureDC1394". Use of the DC1394 engine would probably even make it possible to solve the video transcoding problem in a more elegant way, but first things first. -mario Thanks, Tudor -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 8/12/17, tudor badea tudorcb@... [PSYCHTOOLBOX] \<[PSYCHTOOLBOX@yahoogroups.com](mailto:PSYCHTOOLBOX@yahoogroups.com)\> wrote: Subject: Re: [PSYCHTOOLBOX] Re: video recording To: [PSYCHTOOLBOX@yahoogroups.com](mailto:PSYCHTOOLBOX@yahoogroups.com) Date: Saturday, August 12, 2017, 9:10 PM   Hi Mario, My ultimate goal is to pass these videos on to a toolbox for image analysis, and that one also doesn't see PTB3 encoded movies. What do you think of the following solution: I see there is a script recording the video to a matlab "image" data structure. "MyVideoCaptureToMatlabDemo" I presume that is something I can easily pass on to the videowriter from matlab. The movies will typically be less than 4 minutes, i.e. 240 x 30 (fps) with my target logitech cam over GStreamer. Can I "store" the movie in the grabber object, run my stimulus and "dazzle the subject", and then at the end save the stimulus timing properties, and separately the video documenting the reaction? I would probably use the skeleton of the Video Offline capture procedure. thanks, Tudor -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 8/12/17, mario.kleiner@... [PSYCHTOOLBOX] \<[PSYCHTOOLBOX@yahoogroups.com](mailto:PSYCHTOOLBOX@yahoogroups.com)\> wrote: Subject: [PSYCHTOOLBOX] Re: video recording To: [PSYCHTOOLBOX@yahoogroups.com](mailto:PSYCHTOOLBOX@yahoogroups.com) Date: Saturday, August 12, 2017, 1:50 PM XX---In [PSYCHTOOLBOX@yahoogroups.com](mailto:PSYCHTOOLBOX@yahoogroups.com), \ wrote : Hi, we are trying to design an experiment in which we simultaneously present a stimulus on a screen and record the reaction of the test subject in a videofile. Initially we used PTB3 for stimulus presentation and ImageJ for videocapture, but we had concerns about the timing of the recording relative to stimulus. We therefore would like to run both stimulus presentation and videorecording from within PTB3, benefit from the higher timing accuracy. Stimulus presentation has not been an issue, and we also succesfully controlled the isight camera with the videorecording demo. However we have issues with opening the videofile. We tried the anec\_mpeg4 and one other suggested codec, but there clearly is an issue with the correct encoding. We attempted to open the video with quicktime and with ImageJ, at no avail. We are trying to get this to work on an iMac 2011 using Mac OS X 10.11.6 El Capitan. Suggestions? -\> My suggestion would be to use Linux for the most reliable video capture/recording and the most accurate timestamping of recorded video if that is an issue. I wouldn't guarantee anything about timing precision on OSX. After Apple breaking video capture in multiple osx releases and me repairing it a couple of times or working around new bugs i've given up trying to make it reliable. Also the iSight is one of the least controllable cameras in terms of framerate and precision. That's unfortunately due to its firmware, so will also affect precision and control under Linux to some smaller degree if you use an iSight. For really precise timing you'd need to use a Firewire camera or USB-3 machine vision camera and PTB's libdc1394 capture engine, e.g., as shown in VideoMultiCameraCaptureDemo.m. That allows really pro level control over imaging parameters, timing, etc. and also synchronized multi-camera capture if one needs it. Fully supported on Linux, used to work ok at least with Firewire cameras on OSX, not available on Windows. The encoding at least of the standard h264 codec should be fine and standards compliant. You will notice that PTB itself can play the movies just fine. A up to date version of, e.g., VLC, and similar free playback software will also not have problems. It's mostly Apples primitive Quicktime player that can't play back anything but the most basic consumer level formats. Maybe ImageJ also uses Apples Quicktime framework and so suffers the same limitations? One solution if you absolutely wanted to use Quicktime would be to transcode the videos after recording into something primitive that Quicktime can understand. E.g., use VLC for tanscoding, or use PTB's playback code to fetch frames from a movie frame by frame, then PTBs movie writing code with the setup in ImagingStereoDemo to write it out into a new movie file of more primitive format. -mario Thanks, Tudor  #yiv9468519939 #yiv9468519939 -- #yiv9468519939ygrp-mkp { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;} #yiv9468519939 #yiv9468519939ygrp-mkp hr { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} #yiv9468519939 #yiv9468519939ygrp-mkp #yiv9468519939hd { color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;} #yiv9468519939 #yiv9468519939ygrp-mkp #yiv9468519939ads { margin-bottom:10px;} #yiv9468519939 #yiv9468519939ygrp-mkp .yiv9468519939ad { padding:0 0;} #yiv9468519939 #yiv9468519939ygrp-mkp .yiv9468519939ad p { margin:0;} #yiv9468519939 #yiv9468519939ygrp-mkp .yiv9468519939ad a { color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;} #yiv9468519939 #yiv9468519939ygrp-sponsor #yiv9468519939ygrp-lc { font-family:Arial;} 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**Author:** ![mariokleiner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/13edae/32.png) [@mariokleiner](https://psychtoolbox.discourse.group/u/mariokleiner)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 8:44am UTC](https://psychtoolbox.discourse.group/t/video-recording/86/6 "2017-08-19T08:44:25Z")
So i checked on osx 10.13 beta, and the dc1394 firewire engine of current PTB beta still works at least on a superficial quick check with one camera. No guarantees on Apple the toy operating system, but at least n=1. -mario ---
**Author:** ![tudorcb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/91b2a8/32.png) [@tudorcb](https://psychtoolbox.discourse.group/u/tudorcb)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2017, 10:09pm UTC](https://psychtoolbox.discourse.group/t/video-recording/86/7 "2017-08-22T22:09:40Z")
Hi Mario, thank you for keeping our hopes up that we can still use Mac OS X. :D !!! Meanwhile we are trying to set up a Unix machine. For conformity reasons, we may need to install Centos 7 rather than Debian. Do you see any reasons not to do that? Do you foresee any issues? Thank you, Tudor -------------------------------------------- > On Thu, 8/17/17, [mario.kleiner@...](mailto:mario.kleiner@...) [PSYCHTOOLBOX] \<[PSYCHTOOLBOX@yahoogroups.com](mailto:PSYCHTOOLBOX@yahoogroups.com)\> wrote: > > Subject: Re: [PSYCHTOOLBOX] Re: video recording > To: [PSYCHTOOLBOX@yahoogroups.com](mailto:PSYCHTOOLBOX@yahoogroups.com) > Date: Thursday, August 17, 2017, 4:08 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > XXX-In [PSYCHTOOLBOX@yahoogroups.com](mailto:PSYCHTOOLBOX@yahoogroups.com), > \ wrote : > > Hi Mario, > > > > so here's the low tech solution. We just dropped a > mirror into the arena, reflecting the screen into the > camera, unbeknownst to our rodent subject. > > Hence we are simultaneously recording the stimulus and the > animal response. (Done with a Webcam plugin of imageJ > controlling a Logitech Webcam pro 920). Synchronization was > "masterfully" approximated by having the PTBv3 > stimulus program listening to the keypresses that start and > stop the ImageJ recording. The framerate, retrocalculated > from the number of frames and elapsed time is a glorious 12 > fps, but even so, the stimulus does start and stops on the > recording at the predicted frames. > > > -\> Cool, i love > low tech solutions. Straight physics, easy to understand and > fix, no horror induced by software upgrades :) > > Will > have to do until we get a firewire camera ( no, I do not > have an external isight). Will have to read into > > -\> > Ok, but you were talking about an iSight before? > > infrared > capability, focal distance and depth and angle of view > before shelling out the 1000 US$ or so they appear to cost, > and transforming a laptop into a Unix machine. You guys like > Neurodebian, is that right ? > > > -\> Neurodebian is > the most simple way to get things set up for typical use. 1. > Install Matlab if you think you really need it, instead of > Octave. 2. Install PTB from NeuroDebian. 3. One run of > PsychLinuxConfiguration after that, a reboot, and you are > set. > > -\> Here's a list of all > cameras known to work with libdc1394 and therefore PTB's > dc1394 capture engine, including some useful tips on camera > selection: > [https://damien.douxchamps.net/ieee1394/cameras/](https://damien.douxchamps.net/ieee1394/cameras/) > > You > would want a camera that is 1394A or 1394B capable (aka > Firewire), and IIDC standard compliant. While at least the > Linux engine also supports some USB-3 cameras with USBVision > standard, that support was less precise (in timing) and more > fragile/troublesome/unreliable to get working, needing for > quite a bit of tweaking, at least with the one model i > tested a few years ago. Things may have changed since then, > my memory about details is dim. > > > Are you any happier with Mac OS X 10.12? > > > -\> I'm equally > unhappy with any existing OSX version and don't give any > guarantees wrt. anything if you use OSX. In general it has > become worse with any new osx version. But if you use a AMD > graphics card and the Psychtoolboxkerneldriver and PTB > doesn't complain about anything, then visual stimulation > might be ok. And if not, and your needs for visual stimulus > timing precision and integrity are low enough, maybe you are > fine, i don't know your specific needs. Wrt. to the > firewire capture just try it and see if it works for your > purpose or doesn't. It's easy enough to test. > > -mario > > > Tudor > > > > > > ---In [PSYCHTOOLBOX@yahoogroups.com](mailto:PSYCHTOOLBOX@yahoogroups.com), > > \ wrote : > > > > Hi > > Mario, > > > > > > > > yes we are talking about recording a real live mouse that > > runs around in an arena and reacts to Psychtoolbox > presented > > visual stimuli. > > > > We tried to record him with ImageJ, and that gave about 16 > - > > 20 fps, but more importantly, we did not have a way to > > precisely ascertain when the stimulus was presented > relative > > to the recording (mouse has to be recorded continuously > > before, during and after the stimulus presentation). > > > > My thought was that I can design a PTB experiment that > will > > manage the stimulus as well as the recording and thus > > synchronize the animal reaction to the stimulation. > > > > Do you think it can be done with one machine running both > > the stimulus presentation on a secondary screen and the > > video recording on the main screen? From within the same > m > > file or separately? I already > > > > -\> Yes, one machine will be enough. You > > don't need to display the video feed, just to record > it, > > but if you want to, you can. With a firewire camera > (again, > > do you already have a firewire based external iSight to > test > > this out?) you can follow the approach of > > VideoMultiCameraCaptureDemo, although that does way more > > than what you'd need for recording from only one > camera, > > and will need removal of lots of code and probably a bit > > customization. However the demo is quite close to what > > you'd need. E.g, the 'pts' timestamps would > > represent capture time quite close to reality (minus a > > camera model specific offset between the recorded pts of > a > > frame and the start of exposure), and the returned > > 'GetFetchedFramecount' would correspond to the > > framecount in the recoded movie file. Iow. you can > compare > > pts to the presentation timestamp of > Screen('Flip') > > or log it together with the framecount to find out which > > movie frame corresponds to which event in your trial. > > > > E.g., if you edit line 83 to > > this > > codec = ':CodecType=DEFAULTencoder > > UseVFR Videoquality=0.5 Profile=2'; > > then > > it would record video in a format that even Apples toy > movie > > player can handle. The DC1394 engine can do that, whereas > > the standard GStreamer engine currently can't. > > > > know you think I should do it > > under Unix but would you gve Mac OS x 10.11.6 or 10.12 a > > chance? > > > > > > In theory the firewire capture engine also > > works on OSX, in practice i haven't tried it in > years, > > so ymmv on current osx versions, depending on if and how > > much Apple screwed up their trainwreck in that area. > > > > > > > > With regard to the firewire cameras, these are recording > an > > animal, maybe under infrared, wide angle and reasonable > > focal distance so they can capture the entire arena. > > > > > > -\> The engine was tested with a few > > models of Basler cameras, one PointGrey FireFly, and a > cheap > > but charming UniBrain Fire-i. Firewire cameras are at > least > > in my experience very plug & play, one of the few > things > > that actuallly worked as advertised by their vendors. > > > > -mario > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Tudor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Previous convo: > > > > > > > > We played around a little bit with the various > > > > videorecording demos and are indeed able to translate the > > > > saved files encoded with the anec\_mpeg4 codec using VLC. > > > > However, it looked like grabbing the isight camera has > > some > > > > sort of delay, which was about 5 seconds on a Mac pro and > > 2 > > > > seconds on an iMac. When you run the VideorecordingDemo, > > > > the time elapsed and timestamp differential is indicated > > in > > > > the active window. However, if you recover time elapsed > > and > > > > various t = Getsec timestamps, the elapsed time is > > > > consistently shorter. > > > > > > > > When you open the video in VLC, the initial 5 seconds are > > > > unavailable (you simply cannot move the cursor over to > > > > them). > > > > > > > > The maximum frame rate we achieved was about 30 fps, as > > > > expected, but this initial "glitch" is > > > > troublesome. > > > > > > > > Tried to record the movie without showing it on screen. > > > > Again, when one analyses the converted movie, the extra > > five > > > > seconds are there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again Mac OS X 10.11.6 "El Capitan". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Considering getting one of the firewire cameras. Would be > > > > nice to hear what people have used succesfully. This > > woudl > > > > be for tracking a (really fast) mouse around an arena, so > > > > forgiving focal depth and wide angle are necessary. > > > > > > > > > > > > -\> Ok, but then you are not talking > > > > about the cheap USB based iSight found in typical Apple > > > > toys, as i assumed, or how would you use that for > tracking > > a > > > > mouse -- an actual living mouse as your subject, not a > > > > computer mouse? If you talk about one of those old > > classic > > > > external iSight's, afaik those are firewire cameras, > > no? > > > > So you could give that iSight a try, but with the DC1394 > > > > high perf capture and recording engine. Setup > > instructions > > > > in "help VideoCaptureDC1394". Use of the DC1394 > > > > engine would probably even make it possible to solve the > > > > video transcoding problem in a more elegant way, but > > first > > > > things first. > > > > > > > > -mario > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tudor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > On Sat, 8/12/17, tudor badea tudorcb@... > > > > [PSYCHTOOLBOX] \<[PSYCHTOOLBOX@yahoogroups.com](mailto:PSYCHTOOLBOX@yahoogroups.com)\> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [PSYCHTOOLBOX] Re: video recording > > > > > > > > To: [PSYCHTOOLBOX@yahoogroups.com](mailto:PSYCHTOOLBOX@yahoogroups.com) > > > > > > > > Date: Saturday, August 12, 2017, 9:10 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Mario, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My ultimate goal is to pass these videos on to a toolbox > > > > for > > > > > > > > image analysis, and that one also doesn't see PTB3 > > > > > > > > encoded movies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do you think of the following solution: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I see there is a script recording the video to a matlab > > > > > > > > "image" data structure. > > > > > > > > "MyVideoCaptureToMatlabDemo" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I presume that is something I can easily pass on to the > > > > > > > > videowriter from matlab. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The movies will typically be less than 4 minutes, i.e. > > 240 > > > > x > > > > > > > > 30 (fps) with my target logitech cam over GStreamer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can I "store" the movie in the grabber object, > > > > run > > > > > > > > my stimulus and "dazzle the subject", and then > > > > at > > > > > > > > the end save the stimulus timing properties, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and separately the video documenting the reaction? I > > > > would > > > > > > > > probably use the skeleton of the Video Offline capture > > > > > > > > procedure. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tudor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 8/12/17, mario.kleiner@... > > > > > > > > [PSYCHTOOLBOX] \<[PSYCHTOOLBOX@yahoogroups.com](mailto:PSYCHTOOLBOX@yahoogroups.com)\> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [PSYCHTOOLBOX] Re: video recording > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: [PSYCHTOOLBOX@yahoogroups.com](mailto:PSYCHTOOLBOX@yahoogroups.com) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Saturday, August 12, 2017, 1:50 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > XX---In [PSYCHTOOLBOX@yahoogroups.com](mailto:PSYCHTOOLBOX@yahoogroups.com), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \ wrote : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we are trying to design an > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > experiment in which we simultaneously present a stimulus > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a screen and record the reaction of the test subject in > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > videofile. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Initially we used PTB3 for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > stimulus presentation and ImageJ for videocapture, but > > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > had concerns about the timing of the recording relative > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > stimulus. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We therefore > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would like to run both stimulus presentation and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > videorecording from within PTB3, benefit from the higher > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > timing accuracy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stimulus > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > presentation has not been an issue, and we also > > > > > > > > succesfully > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > controlled the isight camera with the videorecording > > > > > > > > demo. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However we have issues with opening the videofile. We > > > > > > > > tried > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the anec\_mpeg4 and one other suggested codec, but there > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > clearly is an issue with the correct encoding. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We attempted to open the video > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with quicktime and with ImageJ, at no avail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We are trying to get this to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > work on an iMac 2011 using Mac OS X 10.11.6 El Capitan. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Suggestions? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -\> My suggestion would be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to use Linux for the most reliable video > > > > > > > > capture/recording > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and the most accurate timestamping of recorded video if > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is an issue. I wouldn't guarantee anything about > > > > > > > > timing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > precision on OSX. After Apple breaking video capture in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > multiple osx releases and me repairing it a couple of > > > > > > > > times > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or working around new bugs i've given up trying to > > > > > > > > make > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it reliable. Also the iSight is one of the least > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > controllable cameras in terms of framerate and > > > > > > > > precision. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's unfortunately due to its firmware, so will > > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > affect precision and control under Linux to some smaller > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > degree if you use an iSight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For really precise timing you'd need to use > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a Firewire camera or USB-3 machine vision camera and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PTB's libdc1394 capture engine, e.g., as shown in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > VideoMultiCameraCaptureDemo.m. That allows really pro > > > > > > > > level > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > control over imaging parameters, timing, etc. and also > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > synchronized multi-camera capture if one needs it. Fully > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > supported on Linux, used to work ok at least with > > > > > > > > Firewire > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cameras on OSX, not available on Windows. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The encoding at least of the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > standard h264 codec should be fine and standards > > > > > > > > compliant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You will notice that PTB itself can play the movies just > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > fine. A up to date version of, e.g., VLC, and similar > > > > > > > > free > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > playback software will also not have problems. It's > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mostly Apples primitive Quicktime player that can't > > > > > > > > play > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > back anything but the most basic consumer level formats. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe ImageJ also uses Apples Quicktime framework and so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suffers the same limitations? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One solution if you absolutely wanted to use > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quicktime would be to transcode the videos after > > > > > > > > recording > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > into something primitive that Quicktime can understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > E.g., use VLC for tanscoding, or use PTB's playback > > > > > > > > code > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to fetch frames from a movie frame by frame, then PTBs > > > > > > > > movie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > writing code with the setup in ImagingStereoDemo to write > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > 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