Hi dear all,
I'm Maryam and need to your help. I need to MATLAB codes of fixation cross for 1000 m.s. Is it possible that help me, about these codes?
Thank's
Maryam
Is this a joke?
Or just spam / nonsense?
Or just spam / nonsense?
--- In psychtoolbox@yahoogroups.com, Maryam Ghaderi-Esmaeili <ashianeh63@...> wrote:
>
> Hi dear all,
>
> I'm Maryam and need to your help. I need to MATLAB codes of fixation cross for 1000 m.s. Is it possible that help me, about these codes?
>
> Thank's
> Maryam
>
I think English is just not her first language. She is from Iran. She has a legit LinkedIn profile. I know she also requested help in that previous thread that you replied to. I have a colleague that speaks Farsi that I might be able to have draft up a brief message to find out what exactly she needs.
Best,
Matthew
On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 9:50 AM, peter.scarfe <peterscarfe@...> wrote:
Is this a joke?
Or just spam / nonsense?
--- In psychtoolbox@yahoogroups.com, Maryam Ghaderi-Esmaeili <ashianeh63@...> wrote:
>
> Hi dear all,
>
> I'm Maryam and need to your help. I need to MATLAB codes of fixation cross for 1000 m.s. Is it possible that help me, about these codes?
>
> Thank's
> Maryam
>
Sorry, I was in the darkest depths of coding yesterday and this just seemed like nonsense or spam.
It also strikes me that the vast majority of people don't even try to help themselves
e.g.
Look on the Wiki.
Look at the demos included in PTB.
Use Google.
It also strikes me that the vast majority of people don't even try to help themselves
e.g.
Look on the Wiki.
Look at the demos included in PTB.
Use Google.
--- In psychtoolbox@yahoogroups.com, Matthew Edmundson <medmunds@...> wrote:
>
> I think English is just not her first language. She is from Iran. She has a
> legit LinkedIn profile. I know she also requested help in that previous
> thread that you replied to. I have a colleague that speaks Farsi that I
> might be able to have draft up a brief message to find out what exactly she
> needs.
>
> Best,
> Matthew
>
>
> On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 9:50 AM, peter.scarfe <peterscarfe@...> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Is this a joke?
> >
> > Or just spam / nonsense?
> >
> >
> > --- In psychtoolbox@yahoogroups.com, Maryam Ghaderi-Esmaeili <ashianeh63@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi dear all,
> > >
> > > I'm Maryam and need to your help. I need to MATLAB codes of fixation
> > cross for 1000 m.s. Is it possible that help me, about these codes?
> > >
> > > Thank's
> > > Maryam
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
Yes, agreed.
I have been working on the tutorials, will update you early next week.
Peter
I have been working on the tutorials, will update you early next week.
Peter
--- In psychtoolbox@yahoogroups.com, "T Wolf" <ptb.mail.reflector@...> wrote:
>
> --- In psychtoolbox@yahoogroups.com, Matthew Edmundson <medmunds@> wrote:
> >
> > I think English is just not her first language. She is from Iran. She has a
> > legit LinkedIn profile. I know she also requested help in that previous
> > thread that you replied to. I have a colleague that speaks Farsi that I
> > might be able to have draft up a brief message to find out what exactly she
> > needs.
>
>
> This is the kind of person we need a from-scratch tutorial for.
>
> What is a fixation cross?
>
> - Draw tall rectangle in center of screen (how to find center)
> - Draw wide rectangle in center of screen
> - Flip (explain what flip means) screen 1000ms later,
> i.e., subtract/add appropriate timestamps.
> - etc
>
--- In psychtoolbox@yahoogroups.com, "peter.scarfe" <peterscarfe@...> wrote:
You'd have to go through a lot of setting-up with DownloadPsychtoolbox and whatnot to have a working installation and then to find into the PsychDemos folder and pick the right introduction-level demo inside this folder. In the PsychDemos folder there's also very advanced demos about how to do high-performance and obscure stuff. Then there's also the issue that using "help WhateverDemo" dumps a lot of text into your console.
So the demos can play a role, but they have to be curated and linked to from an introductory document.
If someone has to ask the question "how do I make a fixation cross?" they lack a very basic understanding that "just check out the demos" is not going to give them.
Eventually, we'll also have to move the docs.psychtoolbox.org subwiki. I'm thinking about how to do that. Problem is, the help texts in the .m files are super unstructured plain-text. To make a decent looking website from that is not so easy.
> It also strikes me that the vast majority of people don't even try to help themselvesThe demos of course contain very valuable know-how for various things. But to point to them for an absolute beginner is perhaps already too big of a step.
>
> e.g.
>
> Look on the Wiki.
> Look at the demos included in PTB.
> Use Google.
You'd have to go through a lot of setting-up with DownloadPsychtoolbox and whatnot to have a working installation and then to find into the PsychDemos folder and pick the right introduction-level demo inside this folder. In the PsychDemos folder there's also very advanced demos about how to do high-performance and obscure stuff. Then there's also the issue that using "help WhateverDemo" dumps a lot of text into your console.
So the demos can play a role, but they have to be curated and linked to from an introductory document.
If someone has to ask the question "how do I make a fixation cross?" they lack a very basic understanding that "just check out the demos" is not going to give them.
Eventually, we'll also have to move the docs.psychtoolbox.org subwiki. I'm thinking about how to do that. Problem is, the help texts in the .m files are super unstructured plain-text. To make a decent looking website from that is not so easy.
--- In psychtoolbox@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Seitz <aaron.seitz@...> wrote:
Would you like to go and paste those examples into our staging wiki, so we can have a look? I'm not sure yet how much content to keep on the read-only website portion and what's better suited for the read-write wiki portion. The tutorial definitely should be linked very prominently on the main psychtoolbox.org website. It's supposed to answer the inevitable "what now?" question.
Please insert your scripts into this stub page here
https://github.com/Psychtoolbox-3/psychtoolbox-3.github.com/wiki/Cookbook
Just wrap the code in a code block like this:
```matlab
% code here
```
If the scripts are self-documented, that might suffice already.
thanks for your offering,
Tobias
>Barebones sounds good.
> I've put together a set of really simple examples of how to use Psychtoolbox that I think are more appropriate for novices than the current demos, which I think are excellent but are best for a later stage in the learning curve. I've been using these in a course that I've started to teach on Experimental Design and Programming with Psychtoolbox. I'd be happy to contribute these if someone would help team-up with me to curate them for the web-page and help write some tutorial text. I think what I have is good, but it is very barebones...
Would you like to go and paste those examples into our staging wiki, so we can have a look? I'm not sure yet how much content to keep on the read-only website portion and what's better suited for the read-write wiki portion. The tutorial definitely should be linked very prominently on the main psychtoolbox.org website. It's supposed to answer the inevitable "what now?" question.
Please insert your scripts into this stub page here
https://github.com/Psychtoolbox-3/psychtoolbox-3.github.com/wiki/Cookbook
Just wrap the code in a code block like this:
```matlab
% code here
```
If the scripts are self-documented, that might suffice already.
thanks for your offering,
Tobias
Ok.. I'll stop putting any more work into the ones I have been developing. If there is an existing solution, there no need for me to duplicate.
Peter
Peter
--- In psychtoolbox@yahoogroups.com, "T Wolf" <ptb.mail.reflector@...> wrote:
>
> --- In psychtoolbox@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Seitz <aaron.seitz@> wrote:
> >
> > I've put together a set of really simple examples of how to use Psychtoolbox that I think are more appropriate for novices than the current demos, which I think are excellent but are best for a later stage in the learning curve. I've been using these in a course that I've started to teach on Experimental Design and Programming with Psychtoolbox. I'd be happy to contribute these if someone would help team-up with me to curate them for the web-page and help write some tutorial text. I think what I have is good, but it is very barebones...
>
>
> Barebones sounds good.
>
> Would you like to go and paste those examples into our staging wiki, so we can have a look? I'm not sure yet how much content to keep on the read-only website portion and what's better suited for the read-write wiki portion. The tutorial definitely should be linked very prominently on the main psychtoolbox.org website. It's supposed to answer the inevitable "what now?" question.
>
> Please insert your scripts into this stub page here
>
> https://github.com/Psychtoolbox-3/psychtoolbox-3.github.com/wiki/Cookbook
>
> Just wrap the code in a code block like this:
>
> ```matlab
>
> % code here
>
> ```
>
> If the scripts are self-documented, that might suffice already.
>
> thanks for your offering,
> Tobias
>
--- In psychtoolbox@yahoogroups.com, "peter.scarfe" <peterscarfe@...> wrote:
But if others have mini-experiments that are instructive there's no harm in collecting them and seeing what we get. This is entirely separate from the tutorial.
Please don't feel discouraged or distracted from your project in any way. I'm just thrilled that we have offers for noob documentation and don't want to turn anyone away.
So, please go on if you will,
Tobias
>No, wait. As I said, the tutorial is very important and I'm hanging tight to see what you are producing. It ought to be featured prominently.
> Ok.. I'll stop putting any more work into the ones I have been developing. If there is an existing solution, there no need for me to duplicate.
But if others have mini-experiments that are instructive there's no harm in collecting them and seeing what we get. This is entirely separate from the tutorial.
Please don't feel discouraged or distracted from your project in any way. I'm just thrilled that we have offers for noob documentation and don't want to turn anyone away.
So, please go on if you will,
Tobias
On Monday, May 13, 2013 3:53:45 PM UTC+2, peter.scarfe wrote:Ok.. I'll stop putting any more work into the ones I have been developing. If there is an existing solution, there no need for me to duplicate.No wait. As I said, the tutorial is very important and I’m hanging tight to see what you are producing. It ought to be featured prominently.But if others have mini-experiments that are instructive there’s no harm in collecting them. This is separate from the tutorial.Please don’t feel discouraged or distracted from your project in any way. I’m just thrilled that we have offers for noob documentation and don’t want to turn anyone away.So, please go on if you will,Tobias
Thats great.
I think these are a really good introduction. I'll have a think about how to build upon this.
I'm also starting to think a really really basic description of things might be needed. For example, what a monitor is, that a monitor display consists of "pixels", that the number of "pixels" determines the screens "resolution", that the screen updates X times a second, that this is called the screens "refresh rate". Then maybe the bracketed / highlighted words linked to something like wikipedia.
In the tutorials I had already started to develop I had went to this mega basic level.
I also think a number of people who post are not having problems with PTB per se, but basic math, understanding of Matlab, understanding of computers, or some combination of the above. Links to external resources might be useful. Numerous people who post don't even seem to have attempted to use Google, and there are loads of resources out there which take next to no effort to find.
I'll also have a look to see what advice is available for trouble shooting.
For example, basic pointers to:
(a) Exploring the wiki
(b) How to access the psych demos e.g. help psychdemos
(c) How to access the help blurb for various screen functions e.g. Screen Flip?
(d) How to search the forum i.e. point out where the search box is and how it works
Also pointers for posting on the forum to elicit some basic information from people which is in nearly all instances omitted:
(a) Operating system details (graphics card, processor, etc)
(b) PTB details (version etc)
(c) Matlab / Octave version
(c) And also explicitly tell people to include minimal functioning code that (1) works, (2) other people can run and that (3) shows the error
I don't particularly want to insult people intelligence, but the number of posts which don't include even the most basic information is infuriating. "My computer won't work", "I'm not going to give you any information", "but heres a couple of lines of hacked up code which you won't be able to run".
I haven't had a good look at the wiki for a while, so I'll have a look see what exists.
I know this
http://psychtoolbox.org/wikka.php?wakka=PsychtoolboxForum/
and this
http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html
are linked on the home page.
Maybe make these more prominent: flashing lights, bells and whistles (?). People don't seem to bother reading them at the moment.
Maybe have text saying something like: "So if you have found yourself on this page then you might be having a problem with getting something done with PTB. Before you post have you thought about (a) about searching the wiki (link) (b) looking at the basic demos included with PTB (link), (c) looking at the FAQ's included here (link), or (d) searching the forum here (link). If you are still having problems having done this please feel free to post. However, to help others help you it is really useful if you include some basic information e.g. X, Y, Z."
That sort of thing.
Peter
I think these are a really good introduction. I'll have a think about how to build upon this.
I'm also starting to think a really really basic description of things might be needed. For example, what a monitor is, that a monitor display consists of "pixels", that the number of "pixels" determines the screens "resolution", that the screen updates X times a second, that this is called the screens "refresh rate". Then maybe the bracketed / highlighted words linked to something like wikipedia.
In the tutorials I had already started to develop I had went to this mega basic level.
I also think a number of people who post are not having problems with PTB per se, but basic math, understanding of Matlab, understanding of computers, or some combination of the above. Links to external resources might be useful. Numerous people who post don't even seem to have attempted to use Google, and there are loads of resources out there which take next to no effort to find.
I'll also have a look to see what advice is available for trouble shooting.
For example, basic pointers to:
(a) Exploring the wiki
(b) How to access the psych demos e.g. help psychdemos
(c) How to access the help blurb for various screen functions e.g. Screen Flip?
(d) How to search the forum i.e. point out where the search box is and how it works
Also pointers for posting on the forum to elicit some basic information from people which is in nearly all instances omitted:
(a) Operating system details (graphics card, processor, etc)
(b) PTB details (version etc)
(c) Matlab / Octave version
(c) And also explicitly tell people to include minimal functioning code that (1) works, (2) other people can run and that (3) shows the error
I don't particularly want to insult people intelligence, but the number of posts which don't include even the most basic information is infuriating. "My computer won't work", "I'm not going to give you any information", "but heres a couple of lines of hacked up code which you won't be able to run".
I haven't had a good look at the wiki for a while, so I'll have a look see what exists.
I know this
http://psychtoolbox.org/wikka.php?wakka=PsychtoolboxForum/
and this
http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html
are linked on the home page.
Maybe make these more prominent: flashing lights, bells and whistles (?). People don't seem to bother reading them at the moment.
Maybe have text saying something like: "So if you have found yourself on this page then you might be having a problem with getting something done with PTB. Before you post have you thought about (a) about searching the wiki (link) (b) looking at the basic demos included with PTB (link), (c) looking at the FAQ's included here (link), or (d) searching the forum here (link). If you are still having problems having done this please feel free to post. However, to help others help you it is really useful if you include some basic information e.g. X, Y, Z."
That sort of thing.
Peter
--- In psychtoolbox@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Seitz <aseitz@...> wrote:
>
> OK, I've added the examples from my tutorials to the cookbook. Peter, is
> this something that you can build upon? For my class, I have more
> explanation, and even some Powerpoints (although they require a lot of
> walk-through on my part). I'll have more time in July to help contribute to
> the tutorial but will have limited time before then (although I am happy to
> answer any questions).
>
> Best,
>
> -Aaron
>
> **************************************************
> Aaron Seitz, Ph.D.
> Associate Professor
> Department of Psychology
> University of California, Riverside
> 900 University Ave.
> Riverside, CA 92521
>
> Ph: (951) 827-6422
> Fax: (951) 827-3985
> Email: aseitz@...
> Web: http://faculty.ucr.edu/~aseitz/
> **************************************************
>
>Yep, I'm definitely happy to start working on this now.
> So, Peter do you want to meld this all together? It's your call. We could then iterate later.
>
Now that I've seen the good stuff Aaron has posted, I know where to go from there, and know what not to duplicate.
My first lesson was indeed along the lines of "what is a rect?"
So, as we planned before, what I'll do is work on it until I feel the basics are covered then we can start iterating and filling in any gaps I have left.
I'll give you an email to work out how best to do the editing.
Cheers,
Peter
--- In psychtoolbox@yahoogroups.com, "T Wolf" <ptb.mail.reflector@...> wrote:
>
> --- In psychtoolbox@yahoogroups.com, "peter.scarfe" <peterscarfe@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Thats great.
>
> I agree. I'm quite fond of Keith's part2.pdf: It explains "What is a Rect", "What is a Color", "What is double buffering". Very good. And then these explanations should be interspersed with non-cryptic minimal code blocks to explain the usage. Maybe illustrations too.
>
>
> > I think these are a really good introduction. I'll have a think about how to build upon this.
>
> So, Peter do you want to meld this all together? It's your call. We could then iterate later.
>
>
> > I'm also starting to think a really really basic description of things might be needed. For example, what a monitor is, that a monitor display consists of "pixels", that the number of "pixels" determines the screens "resolution", that the screen updates X times a second, that this is called the screens "refresh rate". Then maybe the bracketed / highlighted words linked to something like wikipedia.
> >
> > In the tutorials I had already started to develop I had went to this mega basic level.
>
>
> Sure. But I thought we should presuppose some basic knowledge. You can point out relevant stuff briefly, e.g. pixels and distance to degrees, how a monitor scans, etc. And add links to other sites.
>
>
> > I also think a number of people who post are not having problems with PTB per se, but basic math, understanding of Matlab, understanding of computers, or some combination of the above. Links to external resources might be useful. Numerous people who post don't even seem to have attempted to use Google, and there are loads of resources out there which take next to no effort to find.
> >
> > I'll also have a look to see what advice is available for trouble shooting.
> >
> > For example, basic pointers to:
> >
> > (a) Exploring the wiki
> > (b) How to access the psych demos e.g. help psychdemos
> > (c) How to access the help blurb for various screen functions e.g. Screen Flip?
> > (d) How to search the forum i.e. point out where the search box is and how it works
> >
> > Also pointers for posting on the forum to elicit some basic information from people which is in nearly all instances omitted:
> >
> > (a) Operating system details (graphics card, processor, etc)
> > (b) PTB details (version etc)
> > (c) Matlab / Octave version
> > (c) And also explicitly tell people to include minimal functioning code that (1) works, (2) other people can run and that (3) shows the error
> >
> > I don't particularly want to insult people intelligence, but the number of posts which don't include even the most basic information is infuriating. "My computer won't work", "I'm not going to give you any information", "but heres a couple of lines of hacked up code which you won't be able to run".
> >
> > I haven't had a good look at the wiki for a while, so I'll have a look see what exists.
> >
> > I know this
> >
> > http://psychtoolbox.org/wikka.php?wakka=PsychtoolboxForum/
> >
> > and this
> >
> > http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html
> >
> > are linked on the home page.
> >
> > Maybe make these more prominent: flashing lights, bells and whistles (?). People don't seem to bother reading them at the moment.
> >
> > Maybe have text saying something like: "So if you have found yourself on this page then you might be having a problem with getting something done with PTB. Before you post have you thought about (a) about searching the wiki (link) (b) looking at the basic demos included with PTB (link), (c) looking at the FAQ's included here (link), or (d) searching the forum here (link). If you are still having problems having done this please feel free to post. However, to help others help you it is really useful if you include some basic information e.g. X, Y, Z."
> >
> > That sort of thing.
>
>
> I'll try to cover this on the new website. On the old/current wiki one could easily pass over the "things to do before you post" notices. I want to make them more prominent.
>
> But there will always be people who come to the mailing list with no preparation. Quickly firing off a "Please review our tutorial, check the FAQ, posting guide, etc" is not a huge hassle.
>
> Right now there's a gap in newbie docs. If someone comes with a question like in the subject of this thread there's nothing to point them too. It's good to know that there have been decent course materials available like Keith's, but it's better to have them featured prominently on the website itself (like as one of the top 3 links). It also gives more savvy people an idea of what PTB is about.
>
> The main point of the tutorial should be to introduce people who know Matlab somewhat to the concepts of Psychtoolbox.
>
> --Tobias
>
>
>
> > --- In psychtoolbox@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Seitz <aseitz@> wrote:
> > >
> > > OK, I've added the examples from my tutorials to the cookbook. Peter, is
> > > this something that you can build upon? For my class, I have more
> > > explanation, and even some Powerpoints (although they require a lot of
> > > walk-through on my part). I'll have more time in July to help contribute to
> > > the tutorial but will have limited time before then (although I am happy to
> > > answer any questions).
> > >
> > > Best,
> > >
> > > -Aaron
> > >
> > > **************************************************
> > > Aaron Seitz, Ph.D.
> > > Associate Professor
> > > Department of Psychology
> > > University of California, Riverside
> > > 900 University Ave.
> > > Riverside, CA 92521
> > >
> > > Ph: (951) 827-6422
> > > Fax: (951) 827-3985
> > > Email: aseitz@
> > > Web: http://faculty.ucr.edu/~aseitz/
> > > **************************************************
> > >
> >
>